One-on-One With Walt "Clyde" Frazier

Published in SBJ January 18, 2007

Walt “Clyde” Frazier, named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history, was a seven-time all-star, four-time first-team All-NBA, and two-time league champion with the New York Knicks, for whom he now serves as a television and radio analyst. In its documentary series, The 50 Greatest Moments at Madison Square Garden, the MSG Network has named Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals—in which Frazier had perhaps his finest performance—as one of the arena’s top five events. 

Q. In your book The Game Within the Game, you wrote, “Players are not born great. They have to develop a tenacious work ethic before they can succeed. “But Stephon Marbury said, “Point guards are born; they’re delivered by God. You can’t make point guards.” Whom should I believe: you or Marbury?

Frazier: You should believe Michael Jordan, who was cut from his high school team. He’s considered to be the greatest to ever play, but he was not good enough in the 10^th grade to make the team. Players are born tall, but they’re not born great. I never knew that I would be a pro player because I didn’t have a phenomenal talent. But I had a good work ethic and when I got an opportunity, I capitalized on it. Whereas some guys are so talented they rarely work on their skills. Those are the guys who have a very short career in the NBA.

Q. MSG is counting down its “50 Greatest Moments.” I have to think that Game 7 in the 1970 NBA Finals (Knicks vs. Lakers) is at or near the top. 

Frazier: Well, it’s No. 1 for me. 

Q. Bill Bradley called your performance “the best seventh game of any NBA player.”

Frazier: Unequivocally I had my greatest game ever: 36 points, 19 assists, seven ‘bounds, four steals.

Q. You remember those numbers. 

Frazier: I sold popcorn at half-time….

Q.  You wrote about the injured Willis Reed limping onto the court before that game: “The scene is indelibly etched in my mind, because if that did not happen, I know we would not have won the game.” Was it that much of an inspiration?

Frazier: Yeah, it was. It gave us so much confidence. Before the game, everyone was talking to Willis, wanting to know if he could play. I remember [Bill] Bradley saying, “Willis, just half of you would be more than anything anybody else could give us at that position. Try to play, man.”

Q. Reed hit the first two baskets of the game.

Frazier: A lot of people think it was premeditated, that we waited until that moment. But when we left the locker room, we had no idea he would play.

Q. It fired up the fans.

Frazier: That’s the other thing. The fans became so catalytic. Once they started cheering, I saw [the Lakers’] West, Baylor and Chamberlain mesmerized. They stopped doing what they were doing and were standing there staring at Willis. At that point, I said to myself, “We got these guys.” I felt so confident once I saw that.

Q. You wrote that the game is “more stagnant” now and described the “Swiss-cheese defense, clowning, and dunking that have become prevalent in the NBA game today.” Is there a prescription? How do you change that?

Frazier: It’s going to be difficult because when you have the influx of young players from high school or after one year of college, they’re still learning the nuances of the game. That’s why you rarely see the old-school style of basketball. These guys don’t know that. They’re enthralled with three-point shooting and the dunk. The mid-range jumper is becoming a lost art. Free-throw shooting is mediocre because guys don’t seem to practice it. 

Q. The job descriptions have even changed.

Frazier: When you slot people into a position—the point guard doesn’t shoot, the shooting guard doesn’t dribble—you’re making everybody a specialist. When I was a guard, I had to defend. I had to rebound. I had to shoot. I had to do everything. That was my job. But that’s not required in the players today.

Q. You were either a backcourt player or a frontcourt player.

Frazier: Right. So, you had more versatility than the players have today.

Q. You were the first player to sign a sneaker deal, back in 1971.

Frazier: With Puma. My first contract was five grand and all the sneakers that I wanted. In those days, nobody was getting paid. They would give you shoes, but they weren’t paying you to wear them. 

Q. Sebastian Telfair got a reported $18 million from Adidas after jumping straight from high school and before he played his first NBA game. 

Frazier: My highest contract…I probably ended up making $100,000 a year on the shoes. That was a lot of money then.

Q. You wrote that “The business of basketball can sometimes be at odds with the game of basketball.” What did you mean by that?

Frazier: If you go to the All-Star game, they’re promoting hip-hop and all this different stuff to sell tickets and cater the game to the young people. But when the [players] want to dress that way, they’re [told], “You can’t come to the game like this; you’ve got to dress this way.” It’s kind of a double standard: the business of the game and what the game is really about. 

Q. You called the NBA “a marketing disaster” when you played.

Frazier: We had no marketing. We had no major sponsors. But a lot of that was racist because the NBA was a lot of black guys and they were highly paid. So, we were kind of stigmatized in the press that we were guys who just did drugs. They weren’t concerned about other things. That was part of the problem back then.

Q. What turned it around?

Frazier: Larry Bird. Larry Bird and Magic [Johnson] coming in. And then Michael [Jordan] and the whole [idea] of people accepting the players as players. They weren’t seeing color; they just saw talent. 

Q. You refer to the “young billionaire guys coming in accustomed to running the show, but they don’t know basketball.”

Frazier: The Mark Cubans. Yeah, the young owners coming in now, they’re just there for, a lot of time, self-promotion. They don’t really have a background in basketball. They’re just businessmen. That could be detrimental to the game. We saw that with some of the guys firing coaches because the coach wasn’t listening to what they were saying from the sidelines. The game had never been run like that before.

Q. You wrote, “When I played, the owners and management ruled the game. Today, the players rule the game.… When I played, you got paid for what you had proven you could do. Now they pay you for what they think you can do. The league has found out the folly of such a system and they’re trying to change it.” How does the league change it if the players rule the game?

Frazier: That’s why it’s going to be a very difficult thing to do. The folly of that is… some guys might be in the twilight of their contracts but are still owed gargantuan money. How do you change that? You can’t change it because the Players Association now, you’re required to pay X number of dollars to the players for maximum contracts. So, it’s a quagmire that the league is in, and how to solve it is really going to take some time.

Q. Any suggestions?

Frazier: Because they’re compelled to pay so much money under the salary cap, they just have to use prudence with the guys they think are going to be the max players. They have to make sure that in five years these players are still going to be at the top of the elite class in the NBA.

Q. Thomas Jefferson wrote, “Nothing gives one person so much advantage over another as to remain always cool and unruffled under all circumstances.” That could almost describe your style.

Frazier: Definitely. I’ll never forget [a game] when I was in eighth grade. I had turned the ball over and was yelling at the ref. My coach called me over and said, “Frazier, don’t lose your head, son. Your brains are in it.” When I was on the court guarding guys, I tried to get them upset. Because if you’re upset, you’re not thinking properly. You’re vulnerable. 

Q. For example?

Frazier: When I played, you could hand-check guys. My defense was not really physical. I was more a perception guy. But some players, like Phil Chenier or Jerry West, didn’t like contact. So, I liked to put my hand on them because I wanted them to slap it away. If they were doing that, they couldn’t think about shooting or dribbling. They were being annoyed. Once I had that response, I knew I had an advantage. 

Q. A mind game.

Frazier: To me, 80 percent of the game is mental in pro sports. At that level, everyone has talent. Everybody’s been a star somewhere. It’s who gets up for the game every night. It’s the mental preparation that separates them. 

Q. You never got called for a technical.

Frazier: In grade school, high school and college, my coaches never allowed us to talk to the refs. I always had disciplinarians as coaches, which was to my advantage as I was growing up. We never had prima donnas on our teams. There was always only one set of rules. I liked rules and regulations. That was part of what my discipline was about.

Q. The brawl in the Knicks game last month [Dec. 16] revealed a lack of discipline.

Frazier: Because guys lost their cool. Also, all of the guys involved are young players. What it is it’s kind of bringing the street mentality into the NBA, the style over substance. We would give a guy a hard foul, but then we’d help you up and say, “Oh, sorry.” Where these guys [today], they knock you down and when you look up, they’re standing over you with the chest out. We used to let sleeping dogs lie. If we were beating you by a lot of points, we didn’t say anything to you. We didn’t want to do anything to psyche you up.

Q. Did you agree with David Stern’s response?

Frazier: Yeah. It’s the game within the game, business and the sport. He’s trying to get control of the game. He knows that in order to keep the major sponsors, he can’t have brawling on the court. These [players] have to project a certain image. And that’s what he’s trying to do now to get this discipline back.

When you mention the NBA, everyone thinks very positive. They don’t see brawling. The commissioner doesn’t want any negative connotations related to the game. 

Q. The players understand?

Frazier: The players should understand that. They are the beneficiaries of what Bill Russell did and Bob Cousy did, and all of these players did. This is why they’re making millions of dollars, so they should understand what’s going on here. But a lot of players do not have a history of the game. They rarely know me; they barely know Russell. They don’t know that at one time the league was about to fold. 

Q. The league has taken measures to address that.

Frazier: It’s crucial for the NBA—and I think it is doing it—to try to give these players a concept of the history of the game. The league now has orientation for rookies and different things to try to educate them about basketball’s past and perhaps where it’s going.

Q. You said only three Knicks have ever approached you for advice.

Frazier: Some of them are just now realizing the type of game that I had. One day, David Lee came up to me and said, “Clyde, did you have a game once with 19 rebounds…. And [Jamal] Crawford said, “I heard you had a game with 36 points and….”

Q. Show them the tape.

Frazier: (Laughing) Right. The other thing the [current Knicks] are not aware of is how provocative Madison Square Garden can be, and how intimidating it can be for the opposition. These guys don’t really know the history of …when teams feared coming into Madison Square Garden. 

Q. You have said that “the gym rat is a dying breed in America.”

Frazier: Look at undrafted players like John Starks and Darrel Armstrong. You rarely see guys like that now. Most of the guys you see are highly ballyhooed players coming out of high school or college. You see very few guys getting that opportunity now like Starks and Armstrong.

Q. You wrote that “Highlighting style over substance permeates every facet of the game today. Style is an important part of the game and the culture of basketball. … But when style replaces substance, when putting on a show leads to losses and shoddy fundamentals, then players need to re-evaluate their game.”  Is there a place for showtime in the game today?

Frazier: Of course. That’s why people like basketball. [Earl] the Pearl [Monroe] had style; Clyde had a different style. Bird had a style; Magic had a different style. This is why fans gravitate to different players. People thought I was cool because when all hell broke loose, I looked like the game just started. You could never read me. I had this poker face. Everybody said, “Wow. He’s cool.” But on the inside, I’m percolating like everyone else. 

Q. As the point guard, you had to set the tone.

Frazier: From being the oldest of nine kids, and always being the leader [on my teams], I had acquired this demeanor from my coaches. They would always say, “Hey, Walt, you’ve got to take charge.” In a way, I was kind of groomed for it. My parents would say, “You’re in charge. You got to do this or do that. I grew up with that pressure. And I liked it. The more the pressure, the more I relaxed. I think if you look at the superstars in the league, they relish pressure. They want to take the game-winning shot. That’s the difference between superstars and the average players.

Q. When did the traveling and palming violations become legal?

Frazier: When the game became entertainment. When we played, the radio announcer would refer to the “yo-yo dribble.” You know, on top of the ball. Now, everybody’s under the ball because they’re carrying it. The league created this Frankenstein, and now they’re trying to take it out. You let guys get away with traveling and carrying the ball for years, and now, all of a sudden, you’re taking that away. If you look at college, they do the same thing now. That little hop move, man—what if Wilt Chamberlain could stop and hop! How many points would he have had! To me, that’s a travel. How can you stop and hop and still go? You never would have been able to stop Wilt, or any of the other guys. The entertainment aspect of the game allowed that to happen.

Q. The kids in CYO are doing it.

Frazier: I know, and you can’t tell them any different because they are influenced by the pro players.

Q. Any interest in coaching?

Frazier: I thought so, man, but at this point in my life, I don’t know if I could dedicate my life to basketball again. But I see so many things that I could help players with. Some mundane things on defense, like the baseline. You rarely find guys in the NBA who can stop people from driving baseline. Or how to play guys without the ball. To me, those are very basic fundamentals that the players are lacking.

Q. You think it’s easier to steal the ball now from a dribbler.

Frazier: Once you have your hand under the ball, you have no control. The only thing you can do is stop dribbling. When I’m dribbling on top of the ball, I can dribble faster, I can dribble lower, I can do anything to elude you. But once you go underneath the ball, you’re dead. You can only carry the ball again or pick it up. So, I don’t have to worry about you going around me once you go underneath the ball. I can go for a steal. I would definitely have more steals with guys dribbling that way.

Q. Is there anything is basketball you would not miss if it were eliminated?

Frazier: I like the game as it is. The three-point shot is second only to the dunk in devastation. The problem is not the three-point shot in the pros. It’s the three-point shot in high school. In high school I would only use it in the last two minutes of the quarter so that it’s not a staple of the game. Sometimes we play the Nets in the Meadowlands, and after the game they have a high school game. Every shot is a three-point shot.

Q. And they can’t shoot.

Frazier: Right! This is what I’m saying. They grow up and they can’t shoot the mid-range jumper, which was a staple of the game when I played. When I talk to women who used to watch the game, or to old people, they go, “Man, these guys can’t shoot, Clyde. What is going on?” And that’s why. They can’t shoot because they rarely practice the mid-range jumper. 

Q. They can’t shoot free throws either.

Frazier: I blame the coaches for that. When I was in college, the starting five each had to make two free throws consecutively or we could not leave the gym. You talk about hostility! You talk about guys hating you! “Hey, man. Make your damn free throws! I want to go eat. I’m hungry.” You talk about focus and concentration. That’s where it happens. Guys are saying, “O.K. Come on. This is it. All right. We got two. We got four. We got six. Come on.” And I always wanted to be the last guy, to make nine and ten, because I liked pressure. I’d think, “I’m going to concentrate on making these shots.” If you saw teams doing that, or if you missed a free throw at the end of practice and had to run a suicide for each miss, you’d see a tremendous improvement.

Q. You coach kids, right?

Frazier: I still coach kids, and when I see them shooting free throws and they’re all missing, I say, “What are we trying to do, guys: See how many we can miss, or how many we can make?” I’d say, “The next guy who misses a free throw, you’ve got to come over here and do pushups.” 

Q. Incentive.
Frazier: Right. Then they start making them. Nobody wants to do pushups. So, they start focusing and they start making their shots. Free-throw shooting is all practice and concentration.

Q. You went 12-for-12 from the line in Game 7 in 1970.
Frazier: You have to simulate game conditions. Before I’d practice free throws, I always ran, because you never go to the line in a game when you’re not winded. You’ve been running, you get fouled, and you go and shoot. 

Q. Shaq can’t hit 50 percent of his.
Frazier: Shaq is shooting 100 free throws, but he never leaves the line. Somebody else is chasing the ball. What I would do, I would run one sprint down to the other end of the court and back, and then I would go to the line. If I missed the first free throw, I’d sprint some more. So, I’d put pressure on myself that I had to make so many or I’d start running. That’s how I improved. My rookie year, I was 67 percent. I ended up at 80 percent, or somewhere near there. But it was just practice and concentration. 

Q. What’s the biggest challenge facing the NBA?

Frazier: Educating the young players in the league on the legacy of the game. Explaining why they are making the type of money that they’re making and what they have to do if they want to continue to make that type of money. I say to the players, “You guys talk about a guy who was taunting you? What if Jackie Robinson reacted that way? We would not be playing professional sports, man. You guys don’t even know taunting.” 

Q. What was that like in college for you?

Frazier: Even when I played in college, there were certain schools where they called us names and threw things at us. What did Bill Russell go through? Or Oscar Robertson, the first black at Cincinnati? Or Elvin Haynes, the first black guy at Houston? I say to the players, “What if those guys reacted that way? What if they showed they wanted their props? Where would you guys be today? You wouldn’t be here making millions of dollars. You guys need to know the history of the game and why you’re in this position to make the kind of money you’re making.” 

Best career move: Maintaining my ego. Not allowing my ego to get in the way of where I was and where I was going. When you leave the game, there’s a tremendous transition because people are no longer catering to you. Everyone has to go through that. It took me two years to control my ego. You have to adjust. Also, I brought God back into my life. I started to attend church regularly again. And my fortunes seemed to change.

Most influential person: My mom. She provided the impetus for me to want to be an athlete. When I was growing up, she was always talking about having a house with a big kitchen. I guess because of all the kids. I can remember when I was 11 or 12 years old, I’d pray, “Please let me be a basketball player or football player so that I can help my mom to get this house.” In 1973 I fulfilled that dream.

Superstitions: None, because they put added pressure on you. Guys have superstitions in the playoffs. They won’t go this way, or they won’t go that way. They tie their shoes one way. It’s just too much work. So, no, I didn’t have any superstitions.

Smartest player: Bill Russell. He was so intimidating and the things he did on the court to harass you. 

Greatest competitor: Willis Reed. Heart of gold and 110 percent all the time. If I played you in a pickup game, I would let the game get close and maybe you’d have a chance to win. Willis Reed would just pulverize you from the beginning.

Date & Place of Birth: 3-29-45 in Atlanta, Ga.

Education: Southern Illinois 

Favorites:

Vacation spots: St. Croix and Maui

Piece of music: I’m oldies but goodies. I Motown down. The Temptations, the Four Tops, the Isley Brothers. That’s what I listen to over and over.

Book or author: Other than myself? The Bible. All the profound sayings come from the Bible.

Movie: Dances With Wolves

Quote: “I complained bitterly when I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet.”

Pet peeve: Since I’m seeking tranquility, I rarely let too many things upset me these days.

Regrets: Not growing up with my son. Unfortunately, I was separated from him once I came to New York. That’s something that I’ll always regret.

Word Association:

NBA: Action

Knicks: Lovable

Isiah: Shrewd, clever, slick. 

Stern: As the name implies. Very stern. 

Stephon: Penetrating, creating.

LeBron: The second coming

Shaq: To the rack

Clyde: Glide